Mu kiganiro cyasohotse muri Jeune Afrique cyahinduwe mu Kinyarwanda, Perezida Kagame yakomoje ku bibazo byinshi kandi binyuranye harimo iby’imibanire na Uganda, u Burundi, u Bufaransa ndetse n’iby’abantu ku giti cyabo nka Sendashonga na Kabuga.
François Soudan: U Rwanda ruritegura kwibuka ku nshuro ya 25 Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi. Mwe musobanura mute ko nyuma y’imyaka 25 hari filimi nk’iyitwa Black Earth Rising zikomeza kugaragaramo ibitekerezo by’ipfobya no guhakana.
Kagame: Nta gitangaje kirimo ariko. Na Jenoside yakorewe Abayahudi n’ubu haracyariho abayipfobya n’abayihakana. Igihe cyose ubona abantu bagerageza guhungira uburemere bw’uruhare rwabo muri Jenoside mu guhakana ko iyo Jenoside yabayeho.
Icy’ingenzi ni uko twebwe Abanyarwanda tuzi amateka yacu n’ukuri kose ku byabaye. Twahisemo gushyira ingufu mu kwiyubaka no kubaka igihugu cyacu aho guhugira muri ayo mateshwa.
François Soudan: Urukiko Mpanabyaha rwashyiriweho u Rwanda rwashoje imirimo yarwo nyuma y’aho n’inkiko Gacaca zishoje imirimo yazo. Twavuga ko imanza zarangiye?
Kagame: Igice kinini cyazo cyararangiye ariko ntitugomba kugarukiriza amaso ku butabera gusa. Hakurya y’ubwo butabera hari n’ubwiyunge. Twashatse kureba kure kugira ngo tubashe gufasha igihugu gusubirana ubumwe, ituze n’umutekano no gufasha abanyagihugu kubana nta nkomyi. Ndetse rwose ndahamya ko ibi twabigezeho ku gipimo kirenze icyo twateganyaga.
François Soudan: Nyamara bamwe mu bagize uruhare muri Jenoside baridegembya. Nka Félicien Kabuga wa munyemari wari warahimbwe umuterankunga wa Jenoside nta muntu uzi akanunu ke. Wasobanura ute se ukuntu yaciye ubutabera mu rihumye?
Kagame: Ntabwo mpamya ko Kabuga yidegembya nkuko ubivuga kuko nta mahitamo afite uretse guhora yihishe. Nta kwishyira ukizana afite, nta mibereho kandi ni mu gihe kuko arishyura ibyo yakoze.
Uko biri kose amayobera ari mu buryo yarigisemo, mu buryo akomeje kubura bigaragaza ko afite ababimufashijemo ndetse hashobora kuba harimo n’uruhare rw’amahanga kugira ngo atazagera ubwo ahatirwa gutangaza ibyo azi byose.
François Soudan: Hari kandi na Col Serubuga uba mu Bufaransa na Agathe [Kanziga] umupfakazi wa Habyarimana wahoze ari Perezida na we uba mu nkengero za Paris. We ntahabwa ibyangombwa ariko ntanirukanwa ari mu kintu cy’icyeragati kidasobanutse mu buryo bw’amategeko. Hari icyizere mufite se ko umunsi umwe bazamwohereza mu Rwanda?
Kagame: Ntumbaze! Ariko se ubundi niba ubusabe bwacu batanabuhaye agaciro kuki Urukiko Mpuzamahanga Mpanabyaha cyangwa ubutabera bw’u Bufaransa butigeze bumuhagurukira? Kuki nta na rimwe ubutabera bw’aho atuye aho mu Bufaransa bwigeze bumukoraho iperereza? Ibyo ubwabyo bifite icyo bisobanuye.
François Soudan: Umuntu se yavuga ko noneho ihagarikwa rya biriya birego ku ihanurwa ry’indege ryo ku wa 6 Mata 1994 ryasubije umubano w’u Rwanda n’u Bufaransa mu buryo?
Kagame: Si gutyo nabivuga. Buri paji igira umwanzuro ariko si u Rwanda rwakwandika umwanzuro w’iyo paji mu kigwi cy’u Bufaransa. Igihe ibyo bitarakorwa kandi hakaba hakiriho ibibazo by’abo bantu umaze kuvuga bizagorana cyane kurangiza gufunga iyo paji. Ku rundi ruhande ariko nkaba navuga ko imibanire yacu ari myiza rwose ugereranije n’uko yahoze.
François Soudan: Mwatumiye Perezida Emmanuel Macron mu mihango yo kwibuka ku nshuro ya 25 Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi. Mu gusubiza ibiro bya Perezida w’u Bufaransa bitangaza ko bizohereza Intumwa ziyobowe na Depité Hervé Berville. Si ibintu byabagoye kubyakira?
Kagame: (Aseka) Igihe cyose twasabye abafatanyabikorwa bacu nk’igihugu kutureka akaba ari twe tugena ibitureba. Ni nayo mpamvu natwe dusanga ari ibintu bisanzwe ako aba ari bo bonyine ubwabo bagena mu bwisanzure ibyemezo mu bibareba.
Kuza kwabo cyangwa kutaza, kohereza intumwa zo mu rwego rwo hejuru cyangwa ruciriritse, gushyashyana cyangwa guterera iyo…Ibyo rwose ni bo bireba. Bisanzwe bizwi ko ntarangwa no kuganya no kwimyoza, si bwo buryo bwanjye bwo guhangana n’ibibazo.
François Soudan: Hanyuma se, nibura haba hari akanunu k’urugendo rwa Perezida w’u Bufaransa muri uyu mwaka wa 2019?
Kagame: Ntacyo mbiziho. Cyakora rwose ni karibu.
François Soudan: Igihe Louise Mushikiwabo yatorerwaga kuyobora Umuryango w’Ibihugu bikoresha Ururimi rw’Igifaransa, hari bamwe bibajije ku kuba niba hari ubwigenge azagira. Bahamyaga ko ahubwo azaba ari akandi kaboko kanyu, akaba umuzindaro w’ibitekekerezo byanyu, ko gahunda ze zose ze zizagenerwa i Kigali kandi atazigera aharanira uburenganzira bwa muntu. Byo mubivugaho iki?
Kagame: Ibyo ni ibintu bidafite shinge na rugero. Icyo nzi ni uko ntigeze numva ko igihe Michaëlle Jean yavanaga amabwiriza i Ottawa, sinigeze numva bavuga ko Abdou Diouf igihe yayoboraga yavanaga amabwiriza i Dakar. Yewe sinigeze numva banavuga ko Boutros Boutros Ghali yavanaga amabwiriza i Cairo. Ariko noneho kubera ko Louise Mushikiwabo ari Umunyarwanda bihise bihinduka?
Nta kundi wasobanura bene iyo mitekerereze uretse kuba ari ivangura. Ibyo rero byaba bishatse kuvuga ko Abanyarwanda by’umwihariko n’Abanyafurika muri rusange ari abantu bafite inyoko yo kubangamira uburenganzira bwa muntu ku buryo Abanyaburayi n’Abanyamerika ari bo bonyine bashobora kubaha uburenganzira bwa muntu. Ukuri ni uko N’abanyafurika bubaha ikiremwamuntu kimwe n’abo bandi. Kabone ndetse n’ubwo bo uburenganzirwa bwa muntu babuhabwa mu buryo bunyuranye n’abo bandi.
François Soudan: Nka Perezida w’Umuryango w’Ubumwe bwa Afurika mu 2018 wesheje imihigo ibiri ikomeye: Ishyirwaho ry’Ikigega cy’Amahoro n’amasezerano ashyiraho Isoko rusange Nyafurika. Namwe niko mubibona se?
Kagame: Oya harabura kimwe! Ongeraho ikindi cya gatatu: Ivugururwa ry’Umuryango w’Ubumwe bwa Afurika ubwawo. Ariko winyitirira izi ntsinzi zose njyenyine. Iyo ntagira inkunga ya bagenzi banjye, abayobozi b’ibihugu bya Afurika sinari kubigeraho.
Ikindi navuga ko habayeho izo ntsinzi koko ariko habayeho n’ikindi cy’urucantege: Umuryango w’Ubumwe bwa Afurika n’ubu urakomora ½ cy’ingengo w’imari yawo ku nkunga y’abanyamahanga.
Kwigira ni ibintu bizasaba igihe. Kuba hari ibihugu bigera kuri 20 byemeye ishyirwaho ry’ariya mahoro ku bitumizwa mu mahanga azagenerwa uwo muryango ni intambwe ikomeye. Haracyari ingingimira kuri bimwe mu bihugu ariko muri rusange ntibashidikanya ku ishingiro ry’uko kwigira k’umuryango ahubwo ni ku buryo byashyirwa mu bikorwa.
François Soudan: Mwashinje Uganda guhungabanya umutekano w’u Rwanda. Ni ibihe bihamya mubifitiye?
Kagame: Hari ibimenyetso byinshi kandi byose bya simusiga. Twabishyikirije abayobozi ba Uganda. Kampala iha ubufasha abantu baturuka muri Afurika y’Epfo, u Burundi, Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Congo n’u Burayi bose bahurira mu Murwa Mukuru wa Uganda bagiye gucurirayo imigambi mibisha ku Rwanda.
Ayo makuru tuyakura ahantu henshi hatandukanye harimo no mu bayobozi bakuru ba FDLR baherutse gutabwa muri yombi muri Congo bakoherezwa mu Rwanda.
Yewe twanabibwiwe n’umuntu ukomoka muri Iran twafashe tukamuhata ibibazo akavuga ko yari aje gukora ibitero by’iterabwoba akaba yarageze mu Rwanda nyuma y’iminsi yari yanyuze muri Uganda.
François Soudan: Ariko ibyo byose abayobozi ba Uganda barabibeshyuza?
Kagame: Mu babibeshyuza uvuga ariko ndumva Perezida Museveni atarimo kuko mu ibaruwa aherutse kunyandikira ku itariki ya 10 werurwe akanayitangaza mu binyamakuru, we ubwe yiyemereye ko mu buryo busa n’impanuka yakiriye umwe mu bayobozi ba RNC.
Ukuri ni uko Kampala ari umuhuzabikorwa ikaba n’ihuriro ry’ababisha b’u Rwanda bose, baba abasize bakoze Jenoside, baba abo muri RNC ya Kayumba Nyamwasa cyangwa udutsiko twa Paul Rusesabagina.
François Soudan: Mwebwe na Perezida Museveni mumaze imyaka irenga 40 muziranye. Mwamufashije kugera ku butegetsi namwe abafasha mu rugamba rwo kubohora igihugu cyanyu. Byaje kugenda gute? Abashinja cyangwa se abagaya iki?
Kagame: Yewe, nanjye ubwanjye byageze ubwo mubaza icyo kibazo. Icyaje kugaragara ni uko nta mpamvu ifatika ihari kereka wenda kuba yumva tumurimo umwenda udashira.
François Soudan: Hashize imyaka 20 ubwo ingabo zanyu zakozanyagaho i Kisangani muri Congo. Icyo gihe waramutsinze. Byaba se ari byo byamuhagamye n’ubu bikaba bitaramuvamo?
Kagame: Twabanesheje inshuro eshatu zose byo ni byo rwose. Bivuze ko ibyo uvuga bishobora kuba ari nabyo ahari. Ariko hagomba kuba hari n’izindi mpamvu. Ubushake bwo gushaka kuvugiramo u Rwanda. Ikintu cyo gushaka kutwigarurira. Ubanza ari ibyo.
François Soudan: Museveni arabakuriye ariko kuko afite imyaka 74. Aho ntimwaba mwaramwubahutse ?
Kagame: Rwose ndamwubaha nk’Umukuru w’Igihugu cya Uganda. Ariko muvanire inzira ku murima ntabwo ari Perezida w’u Rwanda kandi ntateze kuba we.
Ibyo akwiye kubyumva no kubyemera gutyo. Nta gitugu na kimwe twemera aho cyaba gituruka hose, ibyo ngira ngo murabizi. Ugiye mu by’ubumenyi bw’Isi wasanga u Rwanda ari agahugu gato. Ariko nuhindura ukajya mu bya politiki n’imitekerereze, uzasanga igihugu cyacu ari rutura.
François Soudan: Aho bigeze se ubwiyunge burashoboka ?
Kagame: Sinkeka ko bishoboka. Nta mwanya w’abunzi mbona mu bibazo byacu. Nk’uko nabitangarije Museveni byose bizaterwa na we. Ntabwo ashobora guhora avuga ko nta kibazo afite ku Rwanda ngo narangiza akore ibyo byose maze kubabwira.
Umuti w’ikibazo uri muri Uganda kandi uri mu maboko ya Museveni ubwe. Reka ngusetse gato: hano mu Rwanda hari gahunda dufite y’Itorero rihuza urubyiruko rw’abanyeshuri b’Abanyarwanda baba mu mahanga, tubahuriza hamwe mu biruhuko ababyifuje tukabaha inyigisho z’amateka, ubukungu, Ikinyarwanda, indangagaciro n’imyitozo y’ibanze ya gisirikare imara icyumweru kimwe. Ariko nagira ngo nkubwire ko kuri Museveni ngo uwo ari umugambi mubi ubangamiye Uganda. Ku bwe ngo tuba turimo dutoza umutwe wo kuzatera Uganda. Urumva na we ko hari aho bigera agasa nk’ucanganyikiwe.
François Soudan: Vuba aha kandi bwari n’ubwa mbere ubikoze mwakomoje ku rupfu rwa Seth Sendashonga wayoboye Minisiteri ya mbere y’Ubutegetsi bw’Igihugu nyuma ya Jenoside wiciwe i Nairobi mu 1998. Muhamya ko amakuru mufite ahura n’ay’impuguke mu mateka Gérard Prunier ahamya ko Sendashonga yiteguraga gutera u Rwanda abifashijwemo na Salim Saleh, Umuvandimwe wa Museveni. Kuki mwategereje imyaka 20 yose kugira ngo mugire icyo mubitagazaho?
Kagame: Abayobozi ba Uganda bashyigikiraga Sendashonga icyo gihe ni nabo kuri ubu nyine barimo gushyigikira abigishwa be. Amateka ahora yisubiramo erega.
François Soudan: Reka nsubiremo uko mwavuze: Sendashonga yapfuye kubera ko yarenze umurongo. Ibyo ntibisabirwa imbabazi” Ibi se bivuze ko mwirengereye iyicwa rye?
Kagame: Winyitirira ibyo ntavuze. Kandi uzasome neza ubuhamya bwa Gérard Prunier mu gitabo ‘From Genocide to Continental War’ (Uko Jenoside yaje kuvamo intambara yakwiriye umugabane wose).
Muri icyo gitabo asobanura uko mushuti we Sendashonga yinjizaga mu gisirikare amagana y’urubyiruko abifashijwemo na Uganda. Akaza gusoza avuga ko ubutegetsi bw’i Kigali ku bwe ari bwo bwafashe umwanzuro wo kumuhitana kuko yari “yarenze umurongo”. Ayo magambo ni nyir’igitabo uyavuga.
François Soudan: Niba se nta ruhare wabigizemo kuki mwagombye kuvuga ko nta mbabazi mubisabira?
Kagame: Byumvikane neza rwose ntabwo nicuza urupfu rwa Sendashonga habe n’urw’undi mwanzi w’igihugu.
François Soudan: Birasa nk’ibyo mwatangaje nyuma gato y’iyicwa rya Patrick Karegeya i Johannesbourg ku ya 1 Mutarama 2014.
Kagame: Rwose. Ariko ntibisobanuye ko ari twe twamwishe. Iyo umwe mu banzi bacu apfuye icyo yaba azize cyose, impuhwe n’akababaro ntuzabibarize iwanjye.
François Soudan: U Rwanda ntirukora ku nyanja. Ni izihe ngaruka ibyo bibazo mufitanye na Uganda bizagira ku nzira z’ubuhahirane?
Kagame: Umuhora wa Ruguru unyura muri Uganda ujya mu cyambu cya Kenya i Mombasa usa n’ufunze. Abafite ibicuruzwa byoherezwa mu mahanga bivuye mu Rwanda birimo amata, Coltan itunganyijwe, amabuye y’agaciro bahozwa ku nkeke.
Naho umushinga wa gari ya moshi Kigali-Kampala-Mombasa, Uganda yarangije kudutsembera ko bawuvunjemo Mombasa-Kampala-Juba (Sudani y’Epfo). Ibyo kuvuga ko iyo gari ya moshi yagera mu Rwanda byo batuvaniye inzira ku murima. Imyaka ibaye myinshi baduhima mu buryo bugoye gusobanura.
François Soudan: Umubano wanyu n’u Burundi nawo si shyashya. U Burundi se na bwo mubufata nk’inkambi yitorezwamo ingabo z’ababarwanya kimwe na Uganda?
Kagame: Cyane rwose kandi icyo si ikintu gishya. Birasanzwe kimwe n’uko Bujumbura na Kampala ari abafatanyacyaha. Mu by’ukuri abayobozi b’u Burundi ntako batagize ngo badusembure kandi babiterwa n’ibibazo byabo bya politiki y’imbere mu gihugu. Ariko n’umutego twanze kugwamo.
François Soudan: Bujumbura irasaba inama y’abakuru b’ibihugu bigize Umuryango w’Afurika y’Uburasirazuba kuri icyo kibazo. Kuki mwakomeje kubwangira?
Kagame: Nta kibazo kiri hagati y’u Rwanda n’u Burundi. Ikiriho ni ikibazo hagati y’Abarundi u Rwanda rugahindurwa urwitwazo rw’abashaka kuyobya uburari. Niyo mpamvu inama yo kwiga ku kibazo bwite cy’u Burundi kibureba gusa nta mpamvu yayo. Ntabwo dushaka kujyanwa muri iryo jijisha kandi twirinze gusubiza abadushotora. Kereka rero nibarenga nyirantarengwa bakibeshya bakadutera ku mugaragaro.
François Soudan: Habaye ikintu cy’urujijo mu bagize Umuryango w’Ubumwe bwa Afurika harimo n’abaturanyi ba RDC ku byerekeranye n’itorwa ritavugwaho rumwe rya Félix Tshisekedi. Mubivuga ho iki?
Kagame: Cyakora wa mugani ubanza umuntu yabyita urujijo. Urujijo mu buryo bwose. Muri RDC ubwaho, amatora yajemo urujijo bituma ibiyavuyemo bivugwa mu buryo butandukanye n’indorerezi, ibihugu no mu yandi mashyaka arwanya ubutegetsi.
Urwo rujijo rwaje kwadukira ibihugu byo mu karere cyane cyane ibihuriye muri SADC bitasibye kohereza ubutumwa buvuguruzanya. Bigeze aho kubera ikibazo cya Congo akenshi kigira ingaruka ku buryo butaziguye ku bihugu bituranyi icyenda bya Congo abantu bashyize mu gaciro, abashyira imbere iby’ingenzi bararebye bati icya mbere amatora yarabaye yararangiye. Icya kabiri Congo ni igihugu cyigenga kandi icya gatatu si twe twakagombye kuyihatira umukandida runaka.
François Soudan: Mufite icyizere ki ko Félix Tshisekedi azabasha guhangana na Kabila? Mwiteguye kuzabimufashamo se?
Kagame: Ibyo si umurimo wanjye. Icyo ndeba ni uko ari Perezida wa Congo kandi tuzakora ibishoboka byose tugafatanya na we.
François Soudan: Musanga se Kabila wahoze ari Perezida ari uwo gushimirwa kuba yarageze aho akarekura ubutegetsi ?
Kagame: Icyo kibazo sindi bugisubize
François Soudan: Aba FDLR baracyabarizwa mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo, abandi bakahanyura mu ngendo zabo hagati y’u Burundi na Uganda. Muracyikoma se abayobozi ba Congo kuba ntacyo bakora?
Kagame: Oya ntako batagira ngo babakome imbere uretse ko Congo ari nini.
François Soudan: Umuntu se yavuga ko umubano wanyu na Afurika y’Epfo waba wararushijeho kuba mwiza muri uyu mwaka ushize Perezida Ramaphosa agiye ku butegetsi asimbuye Jacob Zuma?
Kagame: Byo muri rusange nibyo ariko ibibazo byose si ko byakemutse cyane ibijyanye na viza ariko ubushake bwo buriho. Navuga ko ari ikibazo cyazakemuka mu gihe kiri imbere.
François Soudan: Kuba se Jenerali Kayumba Nyamwasa ubutabera bw’ u Rwanda bushinja ubugambanyi atuye muri Afurika y’Epfo ariko icyo gihugu kikaba gikomeje kwanga kumwohereza mu Rwanda nta kibazo biteye?
Kagame: Bashobora kuba badaha agaciro icyo kibazo. Ariko nibaza ko umunsi umwe byatinda byagira bazashyira bakagihagurukira. Twaboherereje dosiye yose. Iteka turangwa no kwihangana.
François Soudan: Ubutabera bwa Afurika y’Epfo mu minsi iri imbere bushobora kubyutsa dosiye y’iyicwa rya Patrick Karegeya aho hakekwa ubufatanyacyaha hagati y’abamwishe na Guverinoma y’u Rwanda.
Kagame: Tuzaba tureba nta kindi nifuza kubivugaho.
François Soudan: Mu mwiherereo w’abayobozi uherutse wabereye mu kigo cya gisirikari mwavuze ko mu byo u Rwanda rwanyuzemo hari ahagaragaye intege nke ndetse n’ibindi byabananiye rwose. Aha mwashakaga kuvuga iki?
Kagame: Nashakaga kuvuga ibintu byo kugenda gahoro mu byo dukora. Tugomba kwihuta kurushaho. Ntacyo bimaze guhora twirata ko hari intambwe twateye cyangwa ngo twishimire umuvuduko w’ubukungu bwacu: Abafite inshinganio zo gushyira mu bikorwa ibyo twiyemeje bagomba kumva ko dukeneye kwihuta. Yego twagize umuvuduko w’ubukungu wa 7% mu 2018. Ni byiza ariko se kuki tutagira 8% cyangwa 9% mu 2019.
François Soudan: Hari abashinja u Rwanda gutekinika imibare n’amajanisha bakavuga ko mu buryo busa nko kwirarira mwaba mwihimbira imibare iri hejuru igaragza aho mugeze n’ibyo mwagezeho. Abo bo mwabasubiza iki?
Kagame: Nta kindi cyihariye nabivugaho uretse kuba abavuga ibyo ku bwanjye mbona babiterwa na kimwe muri ibi bintu bibiri: Icya mbere ni ukutamenya ibyacu cyane iyo bivugwa n’abibereye iyo za New York, Paris na Bruxelles mu biro byabo.
Icya kabiri ni ukwigiza nkana cyane ko bamwe bazi ukuri kose kwabyo ariko bakaba badashaka kukwemera. Nzi rwose ko imihigo twesa buri munsi iryaryata abaturwaye n’abahigira kutwihimuraho.
Ariko ubundi ni ikibazo cyoroshye kuko kubyumva no kubyemera nta kindi byasaba uretse kuza mu Rwanda ukihera amaso ukaganira n’abanyarwanda ukababaza ibibazo, ukajya mu bitaro, mu masoko, mu mashuri, ukajya mu biturage bya kure warangiza ukagereranya uko turi ubu n’uko twari turi mu myaka 25 ishize.
Ubu se koko wibaza ko iriya Miryango Mpuzamahanga na biriya bigo bitandukanye bya karahabutaka bidasiba kuturata no kudutangaho ingero bipfa kubikora ntacyo bishingiyeho? Bikora se hari ikindi baduca? Baba se babikora babitewe n’uko twabeshye Isi yose tukanayishyiraho igitugu? Ibi rwose ni ibintu by’urukozasoni bibabaje kandi bene ibyo si njya mbitindaho.
François Soudan: Hakurikijwe ibiteganywa mu gitabo cy’amategeko mpanabyaha cyasohotse muri Nzeri 2018, gutuka no gutangaza inkuru mpimbano zisebya Umukuru w’Igihugu hakoreshejwe ibitangazamakuru ni icyaha gihanishwa igifungo cyo kuva ku myaka itanu kugeza ku myaka 7. Ibyo bihano musanga bitari hejuru cyane ugereranyije n’ibitangwa mu bindi bihugu ku byaha nk’ibyo?
Kagame: Ibyo uzabibaze Minisitiri w’Ubutabera ku bwanjye nta kibazo mbifiteho kuko bene ibyo byaha ntibinasobanutse. Ese ubundi babaretse bakiyandikira, bakitukira, bakisebereza? Ku bwanjye byose nicyo kimwe. Byambayeho kenshi ku buryo ntakibyitaho. Ariko ngira ngo uwashyizeho itegeko si njye yabikoreye. Nibaza ko yashatse kurengera urwego rwa Perezida wa Repubulika yaba njye cyangwa undi uzansimbura kuri uyu mwanya.
François Soudan: Ubwo mwahaga imbabazi Ingabire Victoire mwibazaga ko azasohoka azirikana iyo neza akareka kubanenga nk’uko akomeje kubikora ubu ?
Kagame: Victoire Ingabire ni umwe mu bagororwa 2000 twarekuye icyo gihe. Ibi ni ibintu dukora kenshi tugatanga imbabazi rusange icya rimwe ku buryo higeze no kurekurwa ingunga imwe abagera ku 30000.
Ni umwe mu bantu 2000 bahawe imbabazi icyo gihe kandi nongere nibutse ko atari afungiwe ibitekerezo bya politiki, yari afungiwe ibyaha yakoze ntashaka kugarukaho. Ahasigaye akwiye kumenya ko niyibeshya akongera azisanga yasububiye mu gereza.
François Soudan: Muri Tanzania na Uganda ababana bahuje ibitsina bakorerwa ivangurwa n’ihohoterwa kandi bigakorwa kugeza no kuri benshi barimo abo mu nzego nkuru z’ubuyobozi. Mwaba mushyigikiye ishyirwaho ry’itegeko rirengera uburenganzira bwabo?
Kagame: Muri uru Rwanda ubutinganyi si icyaha gihanwa n’amategeko. Abatinganyi ntawe ubabuza amahwemo, ntawe ubakwena, ntawe ubatuka cyangwa ngo abahohotere mu bundi buryo. Ubutinganyi si ikibazo haba kuri njye haba no ku bandi banyarwanda.
Ahubwo ibyo byo gushaka gushyiraho itegeko ni byo byaba ikibazo mu muryango nyarwanda ufite uko ubayeho, ufite ibiwuranga n’indangagaciro biwubumbatiye kuva imyaka ibihumbi.
Abatinganyi tuzi ko bariho.Ubwisanzure bwabo ntibugomba kugongana n’ubw’abandi kimwe n’uko ubwisanzure bw’abandi budakwiye kubabangamira. Ibyo birahagije.
François Soudan: Ese umuntu yavuga ko u Rwanda ari igihugu gifite demokarasi irindishijwe igitsure?
Kagame: U Rwanda ni demokarasi. Nushaka kongeraho ikiyirinze ongeraho ko irindishijwe amategeko n’amahame mpuzamahanga ariko bishyirwa mu bikorwa natwe.
François Soudan: Ubundi se ku bwanyu demokarasi izanwa n’iterambere cyangwa n’iyo izana iterambere?
Kagame: Byose ni magirirane. Demokarasi ifasha iterambere kandi iterambere rikoroshya demokarasi. Nta demokarasi ishoboka iyo iby’ibanze mu mibereho no mu bukungu bidahari kimwe n’iyo hari ubusumbane bukabije. Kandi na none nta terambere rirambye ribaho iyo hatariho kugendera ku mategeko.
Inkuru ya Jeune Afrique yahinduwe mu Kinyarwanda na Pacifique Munezero
