Ni inkuru yanditswe na Maghene Deba mu kinyamakuru Oeil d’Afrique umwanditsi wacu Arnold Gakuba yabashyiriye mu Kinyarwanda.

Mu mezi atatu, urubanza rwa Félicien Kabuga rugomba gutangira mbere y’uko Urwego mpuzamahanga rwasabye gukora imirimo isigaye y’urukiko mpuzamahanga mpanabyaha k’u Rwanda. Uyu mwanya ugomba kwerekana ibisobanuro ku rubanza rwatangiye hashize imyaka 26 kandi rukubiyemo ibibazo byinshi. Donatien Kabuga, agarutse ku Ijisho rya Afurika ku ruhare rw’uru rubanza bigaragara ko ruzaba amateka. Aduhishuriye ubuzima bubi bwa se, ingorane batewe n’umwunganizi w’abo mu by’amategeko kandi akagaragaza ibirego se ashinjwa. Ikiganiro na Donatien Kabuga, umuhungu wa Félicien Kabuga, umwe mu bahunze bazwi cyane mu kinyejana cya 21.

Ese umubyeyi wawe, Félicien Kabuga yaba afite uruhare runini muri politiki y’u Rwanda, haba mbere cyangwa na nyuma ya jenoside? Tubwire neza ubuzima bwe. Yabayeho ate? 

Donatien Kabuga: Kugeza magingo aya, data atekerezwa kandi agafatwa  mu buryo bwinshi.   Bitandukanye n’ibyo ubutegetsi bwa Paul Kagame bushaka kwemeza, data ntabwo yari umunyapolitiki mbere ya jenoside. Data yavutse mu ntangiriro ya 1930. Akomoka muri Komini Mukarange iherereye mu cyahoze ari perefegitura ya Byumba. Nyuma yo kuvukira mu muryango uciriritse, ntabwo yagize amahirwe yo kwiga. Yiyigishije gusoma no kwandika. Ni “umuntu wirwanyego”, aho guhera ku busa, yagize imitungo ishimishije.

Ese uwo mutungo yawugezeho ate?

Yatangiye kubona amafaranga ye ya mbere afite imyaka cumi n’ibiri, aho yagurishaga ibitebo yabaga yiboheye. Buhoro buhoro, yashoboye kwizigamira maze bimugeza ku rwego rwo kugurisha umunyu mu isoko. Mu 1955, yagize icyifuzo cyo kwiyandikisha mu bucuruzi. Yubatse inzu muri santeri y’ubucuruzi ya Rushaki muri komini ya Kiyombe muri perefegitura ya Byumba aho yakoreye ubucuruzi bwe. 

Ese aho niho umubyeyi wawe yaboneye uburyo bwo kwigarurira ubukungu bw’u Rwanda?

Nibyo rwose. Mu ntangiriro y’imyaka ya za 70, yimukiye i Kigali arangije kubakayo inzu y’amagorofa abiri. Iyo nzu yayikoreragamo ubucuruzi bwe kandi n’umuryango we ukayibamo. Kuva icyo gihe nibwo yatangiye gutumiza ibintu mu mahanga. Yabanje kujya atumiza imyenda iva mu Buholandi, Amerika n’Ububiligi. Nyuma atangira gutumiza ibicuruzwa abikura muri Amerika, Uburayi, Aziya na Afurika. Usibye ubucuruzi bwo gutumiza no kohereza mu mahanga, papa yashoye imari mu zindi nzego nyinshi z’ubukungu nko gutwara abantu n’ibintu, ndetse n’ubuhinzi n’ubworozi.

Gukorana na perezida Habyarimana 

Igihe cyose bavuga papa wawe, buri gihe bemeza ko yari hafi ya perezida Habyarimana n’ubutegetsi bwe. Ese umubano wabo wari wifashe ute kandi watangiye ryari?

Mbere yo gufata ubutegetsi muri 1973, papa ntabwo yari azi Perezida Habyarimana, icyo gihe wari umusirikare mukuru. Icyo gihe data yari asanzwe ari umwe mu bacuruzi bakomeye mu gihugu, ashobora kuba yari n’uwa mbere. 

Bahuye bwa mbere ubwo Perezida Habyarimana yazaga mu iduka rya data kugira ngo amugenzure aje ku buryo butunguranye. 

Hari ibihuha byavugwaga ko data yatumizaga ibicuruzwa atabimenyesheje ibiro bya gasutamo, bityo Perezida Habyarimana yashakaga kumenya ukuri kuri ibyo bikorwa atashoboraga kwihanganira na gato. Data amaze kwerekana impapuro zose uko zakabaye, yakomeje ubucuruzi bwe.

Data ntabwo yigeze agira ubutoni kuri perezida Habyarimana nk’uko benshi babivuga. Yari asanzwe atumiza ibintu mu mahanga mbere y’uko Habyarimana agera ku butegetsi. Mu myaka ya za 1980, bombi bahujwe kubera imyanya yabo. Ariko nta kintu kidasanzwe, mu bihugu byose by’isi abakomeye bose barihuza. Data yari umuntu wubahiriza amategeko.

Icyakora, ibihuha byakomeje kuvugwa kubera ubukwe bwa bashiki banjye babiri n’abahungu ba Perezida Habyarimana.

N’ubwo byari bimeze bityo, ishyingiranwa hagati y’iyi miryango ibiri ntirisanzwe. Ushobora rero kumva ko gushyingirwa kabiri mu miryango nk’iyi bishobora kwibazwaho byinshi?

Ubukwe bwa mbere bwabaye mu Kuboza 1992. Muri icyo gihe, Perezida Habyarimana yaranengwaga cyane, abantu benshi bamuteye umugongo, muri make yari mu bihe bitoroshye. Niba harimo kwifuza inyungu kuri Perezida Habyarimana, mu by’ukuri icyi sicyo cyari igihe gikwiye. Keretse niba ubukwe bwarashimangiye umubano wari usanzweho kandi ubwo washoboraga gutuma Félicien Kabuga aba ubutoni mbere yabwo.

Ntabwo aribyo rwose. Byongeye kandi, simbona igikundiro data yari akeneye kuko yari yarateye imbere mbere yuko Perezida Habyarimana agera ku butegetsi. Ntabwo rero ari we watumye papa agera ku rwego ariho ubu.

Ikindi ubukwe bwa kabiri bwabaye mu 1996. Perezida Habyarimana yari amaze imyaka 2 yitabyimana kandi twari twaravuye mu Rwanda.

Ese urabona ari izihe nyungu zihari mu gihe Perezida Habyarimana yari atakiriho? Byose ni ibinyoma no guhimbahimba ibintu. Ikiriho ni uko abana ba Habyarimana n’abana ba Kabuga bakundanye, barabana, barashyingirwa, mu buryo busanzwe bubaho.

Bivugwa ko Félicien Kabuga yagize uruhare runini mu Kazu, bivugwa ko yagize uruhare runini mu gutegura umutwe w’ingabo z’Interahamwe kugira ngo zigabe igitero ku batutsi. Ni gute ushobora gusobanura ko so agifite ishema n’umwanya mu rwego rw’ubutegetsi bw’icyo gihe?

Urashaka ko nkubwira ko data yagize uruhare mu bikorwa byamaganwa kandi njye nkubwira ukuri nabonye. Icyiyongereyeho, data azwi hose nk’umucuruzi w’inyangamugayo. Ndetse no mu birego by’ibinyoma yashinjwaga, ibyo ntawabihakanye.

Ku bijyanye n’Akazu, iki nacyo ni ikibazo cyo ubanza gusobanukirwa itandukaniro riri hagati y’ibivugwa n’itangazamakuru n’ukuri nyako. Ukuri kwagaragarira kuko urukiko mpuzamahanga mpanabyaha ku Rwanda (ICTR)  rwagize umwere Bwana Zigiranyirazo wahoze ari perefe wa Ruhengeri akaba na muramu wa Perezida Habyarimana. Ikirego nyamukuru bamushinjaga kijyanye n’uko yakekwagaho kuba yari mu Kazu gifatwa nk’ubugizi bwa nabi. Kumugira umwere, ubutabera bwagaragaje ko icyo kirego kidafite ishingiro kandi ko nta bimenyetso bikigaragaza.

Ikigaragara ni uko Ijambo Akazu ryakoreshejwe mu kurwanga ubutegetsi bwariho. Bamwe mu bahoze barwanya ubutegetsi bwa Habyarimana bamenye ko ari ijambo ryashyizweho hagamijwe gutesha agaciro no kwambura imbaraga ubutegetsi bw’icyo gihe.

Gutera inkunga jenoside 

 Intambara yo mu 1990 itangiye, ibihugu by’iburengerazuba byateye umugongo ubutegetsi bwa Habyarimana, bwagombaga rero gushakisha inkunga y’intambara. Ese Félicien Kabuga yaba yarasabwe kugira uruhare mu ntambara?

Oya. Ntabwo byigeze bibaho. Uko benshi babitekereza, papa yari umukire ku buryo yashoboraga gutera inkunga Leta wenyine. Nyamara ibi siko byagenze. Umubare munini w’amafaranga ya data wari mu mutungo we utimukanwa no mu bicuruzwa bye. Yari afite kandi ibintu byinshi, ariko ntibyari bihagije kugirango atere inkunga Leta. Ahubwo, FPR niyo yamusabye ngo ayitere inkunga.

Niba koko papa wawe atari afite amafaranga kurusha abandi, ni iki cyatumye FPR imushakisha nk’uko wabivuze? Ese ubundi abarwanyaga ubutegetsi bahuye bate na Félicien Kabuga?

Bizwi na benshi ko abacuruzi benshi bateye inkunga rwihishwa FPR. Umuntu wese yatanze uko ashoboye ayishyigikira. Uwari ufite ihene yarayitangaga, abandi bagatanga 10% y’umushahara wabo.

Ku bijyanye na data, nyuma gato y’intambara itangiye mu 1990, mu rugendo rumwe yagiriye muri Kenya, umucuruzi w’umututsi wari wahunze igihugu yaje kumureba maze amumenyesha ko FPR ishaka ko atanga umusanzu wo kuyishyigikira. Uwo akaba ari umucuruzi data yari yarafashije nk’uko yakundaga gubikorera abacuruzi bato yabonaga ko bafite ishyaka ryo gucuruza baba Abahutu, Abatutsi cyangwa Abatwa. Ntawe yarobanuraga.

Ushatse kuvuga rero ko papa wawe yanze gutera inkunga FPR ?

Umenye ko dukomoka i Byumba mu majyaruguru y’u Rwanda. Aha niho hatangirite igitero cy’ingabo za APR,  zari iza FPR. Uko zagiye zirwana, izo ngabo zakoze ubwicanyi buteye ubwoba ku baturage ku buryo mu 1994 i Nyacyonga, aha akaba ari hafi  y’umujyi wa Kigali, hari miliyoni y’abaturage bavanywe mu byabo baturuka i Byumba no mu karere papa akomokamo.

Kugirango habeho miliyoni y’abaturage bavanywe mu byabo, abantu bahunze iterabwoba n’ubwicanyi nyamara ibyo ntibikunze kuvugwa. Twagize ingaruka ku byabaye kubera ko igice kinini cy’umuryango wacu icyo gihe cyari cyaraje i Kigali.

Papa ntiyashoboraga gufasha abantu baje bica abaturage. Yabwiye uwo baganiriye i Nairobi ati: “Nimuza mu mahoro nzabafasha, nk’uko nagufashije mu bucuruzi bwawe”. Ariko we aramusubiza ati: “Nitugera i Kigali, ntituzaba dugikeneye ubufasha bwawe“.

N’ubwo byari bimeze bityo ariko, FPR yari yarigaruriye agace tuvukamo kandi ikoresha inzu y’umuryango wacu nk’icyicaro cyayo. Papa rero yababwiye ko iyi nzu ikoreshwa nayo yafatwa nk’umusanzu we. Ubwo bwari uburyo bumwe bwo kugirango arebe ko yabona amahoro adashyigikiye ibikorwa bya gisirikare. Kuva icyo gihe,  FPR yamushyize ku rutonde rw’abantu batituzwa nayo cyangwa bayirwanya.

Ntabwo hashize igihe kinini, kubera kubura ibimenyetso, umushinjacyaha yahagaritse ikirego kivuga ko yateye inkunga yo gutumiza imihoro myinshi mu rwego rwo gutegura jenoside. Utekereza ko iyi ari intambwe nziza kuri we?

 Nibyo rwose. Ibi nibyo twagaragaje kuva tugitangira. Ubutegetsi bwa Kagame burasenyuka mu gihe gito kuko ibivugwa byose birushaho kugenda bigaragara. Urabona ko ikirego cyahagaritswe kuko bazi ko badashobora kubona ikimenyetso na kimwe.

Ku rundi ruhande, ubushakashatsi bwinshi nka raporo ya Tissot bwerekeza ku cyerekezo kimwe kandi butesha agaciro kuvuga ko hatumijwe imihoro  yo gutegura jenoside.

Kwerekana mu buryo bwemewe n’amategeko ko Akazu katabaho no gutesha agaciro kuvuga ko gutumiza imihoro byari mu rwego rwo gutegura jenoside byaciye cyane intege ubutegetsi bwa Kagame. 

Kuva muri jenoside yo mu 1994, so yafashwe nkuwateye inkunga jenoside Abahutu bakoreye Abatutsi. Ese hari icyatuma afatwa gutyo? 

Nk’uko bigaragara, nta muntu n’umwe ushobora kwemera ayo mahano. Ibyo byavuzwe kuko yanze gutera inkunga FPR kandi ikananirwa no kumwicira i Nairobi. Bifashishije inshuti zabo z’abanyaburayi kugirango bataza gusaba imitungo ye. Ndemeza ko ibi aribo babikoze. 

Umunyamigabane muri Radiyo-televiziyo y’imisozi igihumbi (RTLM)

So yari umwe mu bashinze Radiyo-Televiziyo y’Imisozi Igihumbi (RTLM), ikaba yaragize uruhare runini mu gukwirakwiza inzangano mu gihe cya jenoside. Ntabwo ibi bimenyetso byemeza uruhare rwe mu gutegura ibyo bikorwa?

Ibinyuranye n’ibivugwa ni uko papa atari umunyamigabane mukuru wa RTLM kubera ko umusanzu we wagarukiraga kuri 1% by’imigabane-shingiro.

Kimwe n’ibindi yagiye agiramo uruhare twavuzeho, RTLM yabereye data nk’amahirwe yo gushora imari ku nyungu z’igihe kizaza nk’uko yari ije ari nshya mu Rwanda. Twabibutsa ko igitekerezo cya RTLM cyaje mu rwego rwo gushyira mu bikorwa gahunda yo kugenzura imiterere n’ikigega mpuzamahanga cy’imari (IMF), icyari kigamijwe kwari ukongera abikorera ku giti cyabo mu guteza imbere ubukungu bw’u Rwanda. Urwego rw’itangazamakuru rwari rwihariwe na Leta rwarushijeho kuba rwiza kandi ni muri urwo rwego data yabonye ko ari ngombwa ko yincira muri ubwo bucuruzi.

Bityo muremeza neza ko papa wanyu nta bushobozi yari afite kuri radiyo?

Cyane rwose. Gufatwa nka Perezida w’icyubahiro wa Komite ishinzwe kuyitangiza yahawe ntabwo byari bumuhe ubushobozi bwihariye. Haba mu buyobozi bw’ikigo, cyangwa mu guhitamo gahunda cyangwa se umurongo w’ibiganiro bya RTLM. Félicien Kabuga yari afite abayobozi mu buyobozi no mu bakozi b’ubwanditsi baburanishijwe mu cyiswe “urubanza rw’itangazamakuru”.

Byongeye kandi, nta gushidikanya ko ari byiza kuvuga ko, muri uru rubanza, abacamanza b’Urukiko rw’Ubujurire bageze ku mwanzuro w’uko gahunda zatambutse mbere y’itariki ya 6 Mata 1994 nta ruhare zifite mu kuba jenoside yarabaye.

Urubanza

Urubanza rwa papa wanyu Félicien Kabuga, dushingiye ku bisabwa na Loni, ruratangira mu mezi atatu. Ubu ibye byifashe bite?

Nk’uko ushobora kuba ubizi, data arashaje cyane kandi ari mu buzima bubi cyane. Kuva yafatwa, amaze kujya mu bitaro inshuro eshanu (5). Afite intege nke ku buryo atashoboye kujya mu nama yo gutegura urubanza rwe igihe umucamanza Iain Bonomy yashakaga gutegura inama binyuze kuri videwo. Iyi nama yaje gukorwa mu nyandiko ku ya 9 Werurwe 2021, hagati y’umwunganizi we n’urukiko. Ku bijyanye n’ubuzima bwe, buraduhangayikishije cyane.

Ku rundi ruhande, kuvugana na Altit, umwunganizi we, biragoye. Yanze ubufatanye n’Umuryango ubwo aribwo bwose kandi uko data ameze ubu bitamwemerera gutegura neza kwiregura. Urumva ko muri ibi bihe, turimo gufasha Altit mu mirimo ye. Ariko ikibabaje,  itumanaho hagati y’umuryango na Altit ryarahagaritswe.

Ni iyihe mpamvu ituma umunyamategeko Altit yanga ko mufatanya mu gutegura kwiregura? 

Ntacyo tubiziho. Igihe cyose data yari ataragera mu maboko ya Loni, umubano wagendaga neza. Nyamara ibintu byose byarahindutse kuva icyo gihe.

Ese mushobora kumwanga?

Papa yasabye ko yahindurirwa umuburanira. Kandi ikigaragara ni uko umunyamategeko Altit nawe yasabye ko yakurwa kuri iyi mirimo ariko urukiko rurabimwangira. 

None niba yarashatse ko urukiko rumukura kuri iyo mirimo rukanga, umunyamategeko Altit mumushinja iki? 

 Muri ino minsi, papa abayeho mu buzima bubi. Twakagombye kwishyira hamwe n’umwunganizi we. Ibi birakenewe kuko dukeneye kumenyeshwa uko ameze kandi tugomba gutegura ubwunganizi bwe ku buryo bushoboka. Ku bijyanye natwe, ubu data yafashwe bugwate kuko adashobora guhindura umwunganira.

Ese ubu papa wanyu yemerewe ko avugana n’abanyamuryango nko kuri telefone? 

Nibyo, tumuhamagara buri gihe ariko ikiganiro ntigishobora kumara umunota umwe, imbaraga ze ni nke cyane. Ibiganiro hye bidutera agahinda cyane kuko tubona ko ubuzima bwe bugenda burushaho kuba bubi umunsi ku wundi . Biraduhangayikishije cyane.

 Félicien Kabuga akomeje gukurikiranwaho igikirwa cyo “gutwara no gukwirakwiza” imihoro. Ugendeye kubyo muvuga, urabona azisobanura ate ngo atandukanye izina rye na jenoside? 

Hashyizweho uburyo bwose bwo gutumanaho kugirango bunganire ibirego. Ibi byose bigamije guhindura ibitekerezo by’abaturage. Nk’ubu nk’umwaka ushize, habayeho uruhererekane rwicyiswe “Ushakishwa cyane ku isi” rwerekanwe kuri Netflix rwavugaga kuri data rusubiramo amagambo amugaragaza nk’umuntu watumije imihoro myinshi kugirango ategure ubwicanyi. Nk’uko twabibonye, ibi ntibicyizewe henshi nyamara ntibibuza abafite ibitekerereze bibi gukomeza kuyobya rubanda bavuga ibinyoma.  

Ariko n’ubwo bimeze bityo, tuzi ko uko ibihe bigenda bishira ukuri kuzagaragara. Ibyagaragaye ko ari ukuri nk’ibitabo bya Alison Desforges cyangwa raporo ya Galand-Chossudovsky ubu biraganirwaho. Dutangiye kubona ko ibivugwa byose nk’ivanjiri nta mbaraga bigira iyo abantu babisesenguye. Indi ngingo nizera ko izafasha kugarura ukuri ni ukugaragaza ibinyoma byinshi by’ibimenyetso muri ICTR. Na none iyi ngingo yavuzwe mu rubanza rw’itangazamakuru.

Ubutabera n’ubwiyunge 

Igihugu cyawe kirizihiza muri uyu mwaka isabukuru y’imyaka 27 ya jenoside. Ese kwemeza inyito “Jenoside yakorewe abatutsi” ntibicira urubanza ubwoko bw’Abahutu nawe urimo?

Dushobora byibuze kwitegereza ihinduka ry’ibisobanuro mu myaka yashize. Duhereye kuri nyito yibanda ku bantu bose bahitanywe n’amakuba ubu turi mu buryo buvangura. Twakwibutsa kandi ko Perezida Kagame yashyize mu bikorwa iyi politiki kugira ngo yirinde kubazwa ibyo yakoze kuva mu 1990. Ubwicanyi bwakozwe mu gihe cy’intambara, nyuma ya jenoside yakorewe mu nkambi z’impunzi ndetse n’ihohoterwa ritandukanye ryakorewe muri Kongo kuva mu 1996. Ninde utavuga ko ibibera muri Congo mu gihe cy’imyaka igera kuri 30 atari icyaha cyibasiye inyokomuntu ababikoze bakaba badahanwa?

Tugomba kuva mu gusebanya kwa politiki no “gukurikiza amahame abiri” kuko ubuzima bumwe bungana n’ubundi kandi icyaha ni nk’ikindi.

Usubije amaso inyuma, so yigeze agaragaza ko yicujije kubyo yagombaga gukora cyangwa atakoze, mbere cyangwa mu gihe cy’amakuba?

Kwicuza papa yakomeje kugaragaza ni amahano n’irimbuka ryabaye mu Rwanda kuva ku ya 1 Ukwakira 1990. Ndatekereza ko Abanyarwanda hafi ya bose basangiye kwicuza kuri iyi ngingo.

Ese ubwiyunge burashoboka mu gihe abatsinze aribo bagifite ijambo?

Ni gute ushobora kuvuga ubwiyunge butaryarya mu gihe umuririmbyi ukiri muto nka Kizito Mihigo avuga kugirira impuhwe abahohotewe bose akicwa? Ese dushobora kuvuga ubwiyunge nyabwo mu gihe Bahati, undi muririmbyi, avuga yisanzuye asaba ishoramari ryinshi mu mitungo y’abantu aho kwerekana inyubako akabizira?

Hamaze kurigiswa benshi bakicwa, ubwicanyi ni bwinshi, ntawe uhumeka rwose kubera ko Kagame afite itangazamakuru rimushimagiza rivuga ibinyoma.  

Ese hari undi muti watanga ku bwiyunge nyakuri mu Rwanda? 

Igishobora guhindura ibintu ni uko tubanza kuvuga ibiriho by’ukuri, byasobanurwa kwinshi. Muri byo harimo ko abahohoterwa baboneka mu barokotse bose bo mu Rwanda, baba Abahutu, Abatutsi, n’Abatwa.

Ko tubwirana ukuri, ndetse naho kwaba kubabaje … Ukuri kuri hejuru ya byose, nicyo gishobora gukiza abanyarwanda ariko kandi hamwe n’abavandimwe bacu bo muri Congo. Ahari Abanyekongo ntibabizi ariko turi mu bwato bumwe, bagiriwe nabi kimwe natwe. 

Urubanza rwa papa wawe urutezeho iki?

Ndifuza ibintu bibiri ntabonye: kimwe ni uko urukiko ruburanisha uru rubanza rutabogamye; icya kabiri ni uko data yaba ameze neza bizamufasha guhangana n’urubanza ngo abone uko agaragaza ko ari umwere.

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