Nyuma yo kwitabira inama yo gusobanura gahunda ya NDI UMUNYARWANDA yabereye i Buruseli mu Bubiligi ku wa gatandatu tariki ya 30 Ugushyingo 2013, umunyarwanda Saleh Karuranga utuye mu gihugu cy’u Bubiligi yifuje kuganira na The Rwandan ngo atubwire uko yabonye iyo nama dore ko ari umwe mu babajije ibibazo abayobozi b’u Rwanda bari baje gusonanura iyo gahunda.
Yaganiriye na Marc Matabaro wa The Rwandan
Bwana Karuranga Saleh witabiriye ikiswe Ndi umunyarwanda cyabereye i Bruxelles ku ya 30 Ugushyingo 2013, n’iki cyatumye mufata icyemezo cyo kwitabira iyo nama?
Murakoze, icyatumye nitabira iyi gahunda ni amatsiko nari mfite kuri gahunda ya ndi umunyarwanda, nyuma y’uko gahunda nyinshi zatangijwe na leta ya Paul KAGAME kuva yigarurira u Rwanda byitwa ko zari zigamije kwunga abanyarwanda, nka Gacaca, Komisiyo y’ubumwe n’ubwiyunge izi gahunda zose zikaba zitarageze ku ntego yazo, nifuzaga kumva agashya “ndi umunyarwanda” ituzaniye nyuma y’izayibanjirije.
Hari abanyarwanda benshi batinya kwitabira inama nka ziriya zitegurwa na Leta ya Kigali kubera gutinya kwangirwa kwinjira cyangwa kuba basohorwa nabi bageze imbere mu cyumba cy’inama. Kuri wowe wabibonye byari byifashe bite ko hari amashusho yafashwe yerekana abantu bangiwe kwinjira mu cyumba cy’inama?
Yego koko hari abanyarwanda benshi batinya kwitabira ibikorwa birongojwe imbere na Leta y’u Rwanda, ariko aha nababwira ko ari ukwibeshya kutabyitabira, bagomba gushira ubwoba bakajya babyitabira bakerekana ko nabo bafite ukundi babona ibibazo byugarije igihugu cyatubyaye kandi leta y’u Rwanda yabyanga yabyemera u Rwanda ni urwacu twese ntawe ururushaho undi uburenganzira tuzashira turubanemo twese n’ubwo leta y’u Rwanda ikomeza gushyira ibiti mu matwi. Nibyo koko hari abanyarwanda bamwe bangiye kwinjira mu cyumba iyi gahunda yaberagamo ndetse hari n’abandi bagera kuri batanu nkeka ko baba ari abo mw’ishyaka rya FDU kandi nta kaduruvayo bari bateye Interahamwe nako Intore za leta y’u Rwanda zabiyenjeho abandi bashubije zihita zihamagara polisi iraza irabasohora, nanjye ubwanjye hari intore yitwa Obain yashatse kunyiyenzaho ngo babyuririreho bansohore kuko nari maze kubona ibibaye ku bandi nararuciye ndarumira njya kwicara inyuma ubwo yari imvanye imbere aho nari nicaye. Urebye muri rusange abari biganje muri iki cyumaba cyabereyemo iyi gahunda ni abanyamuryango ba FPR Inkotanyi cyangwa abayikunda. Biratangaje kubona muri iyi gahunda ya “ndi umunyarwanda” baheza abandi banyarwanda hanze, bigutera kwibaza byinshi….
Nk’umuntu wageze mu cyumba cy’inama, wasanze umwuka umeze ute cyane cyane hagati y’abari bitabiriye uwo muhango bafite imyumvire ya politiki itandukanye?
Umwuka wari usanzwe, ndetse ari na mwiza nkuko nabikubwiye haruguru abenshi ni abayoboke ba FPR Inkotanyi n’abayikunda hafi abarenga 90% kandi abatari bake muri bo baraziranye rero barisangaga. Abenshi bahurira muri gahunda za Diaspora yahindutse ishami n’igikoresho cya FPR akaba ari nayo yari yateguye iki kiganiro ifatanyize na Ambasade y’u Rwanda mu Bubiligi
Muri make ibyatanzwe n’umukuru w’inteko ishingamategeko, Madame Donatille Mukabalisa wabibonye ute?
Uyu mutegarugero nta kintu kigaragara yavuze uretse ya ntero y’abanyamuryango ba FPR yo gusingiza Paul Kagame ndetse yari yazanywe ahanini no kwakira igihembo urugaga rw’abagore mu nteko ishinga amategeko y’i burayi yari yageneye Paul Kagame kubera ubwinshi bw’abategarugori mu nteko; ngo baba bagera kuri 64% Uretse no kuba ari benshi mu myanya y’ubutegetsi wakwibaza niba hari imbaraga bafite uretse kuba ibikoresho bya Paul Kagame, urebye n’uburyo baba batowe nk’uko itangazo ryashyizwe ahagaragara na Ambasade y’Abanyamerika mu Rwanda, ukuntu amatora yagenze, huzuyemo kwiba amajwi, gutoresha ku ngufu no kwuzuza amajwi mu masanduka. “Uburo bwinshi ntibugira ikigage cyangwa umusururu”.
Muri make ibyavuzwe na Dr Habyalimana ku bumwe n’ubwiyunge wabonye bimeze bite?
Uko nabibonye kandi mbyumva uyu mugabo ari muri gahunda ya propagande ya FPR kuko ari nawe wakoze film yerekaniwe muri iyi nama itangirira amateka y’u Rwanda mu mwaka 1959 aho yakusanyije amashusho ayavanye mumwimerere wayo agafatamo uduce tw’amagambo yerekanaga ukuntu abahutu bagiye banga abatutsi kugeza babakoreye genoside, hakaza umutabazi Paul Kagame wahagaritse iryo yicwa rubozo. Yageze naho abeshya ngo ku ngoma zabanjirije iya FPR umuntu yazamurwaga mu ntera kubera ko yishe abatutsi benshi. Urumva ko nta kindi narimutezeho kuko yiyemereje kwitandukanya n’ubwenge bwe.
Amateka se yasobanuwe na Depite Kaboneka yo hari icyo wayavugaho?
Amateka yavuzwe na Depite Kaboneka urumva nayavugaho iki koko? Amateka yavuze niko we na FPR Inkotanyi bayumva ntabwo ariko yabaye muri rusange. Hari umugani uvuga uti: “Iyo umuhigi yishe Intare, amateka y’Intare yandikwa cyangwa akavugwa n’umuhigi” urabyumva rero.
Senateri Sindikubwabo nawe yagize icyo avuga, ibye byo wabibonye ute?
Uyu mugabo Sindikubwabo yari afite inshingano nk’iz’undi mu Depitekazi w’umuhutu waje ino mu mwaka 2010 igihe bateguraga gahunda ya ngwino urebe nanjye nagiyemo muri uwo mwaka. Uyu mudamu yatwumvishije ukuntu FPR Inkotanyi ari abantu beza ko bamurokoye bamuvanye i Tingitingi ko nta muntu n’umwe zigeze zihicira n’ikimenyimenyi ngo ni uko aduhagaze imbere. Naho Dr Sindikubwabo nawe aravuga ibijya gusa n’ibi yerekana ukuntu yafashwe neza akanahumurizwa na FPR Inkotanyi yanarokoye umuryango we wari umaze gutwikirwa munzu ngo n’abacengezi. Urumva rero ko ibi byose bigamije kutwumvishako ubutegetsi bwa FPR Inkotanyi bufite ubumuntu tugomaba kureka bagakomeza gutegeka u Rwanda
Wabajije ibibazo ugerageza kwerekana ukuvuguruzanya kuri hagati y’ibyo bariya bayobozi bavuye mu Rwanda bavugaga, ese watunyuriramo muri make ku buryo bwimbitse uko kuvuguruzanya?
Muri make ntibigeze bansubiza ahubwo babigize urwenya. Dore uko banivuguruje muri make abavuze bose bahuriza ku kintu kimwe ko twese dufite ibikomere, ko tugomba gushakira hamwe umuti nubwo ushariye tukawubona, kandi ngo umuco nyarwanda ni ukuganira ariko bivuze nyumva nkwumve, njye umuti natanze nkuko mbyumva ni ukugabana ubutegetsi, kuko abaturarwanda muri rusange ntacyo dupfa. Ntacyo bigeze babivugaho mu by’ukuri ahubwo basaga n’aho bishakira imbabazi z’abahutu n’ubwo batangira ibiganiro bavuze ko ataricyo kibazanye ibi wabisanga mu bisubizo Dr Habyarimana yahaga umusore witwa Norman.
Depite Kaboneka yemeje ko abahutu bose bishwe na FPR kuko ngo bari barimo gukora Jenoside bityo bararaswa kugira ngo iyo jenoside ihagarare. Ese icyo gisubizo cyarakunyuze?
Ntabwo cyigeze kinyura na gato kuko cyuzuyemo ikinyoma cyambaye ubusa, nzi abana bari bafite imyaka iri hagati y’icumi na cumi n’itanu bishwe n’ingabo za FPR, abo bana ntabwo bari interahamwe cyangwa bicaga abantu. Na Paul Kagame ubwe yiyemerera ko bishe abantu aho yivugira ubwe ngo:”ibihe bihinduka vuba ntitwakoze ibihagije…ikijya kimbabaza ntitwabonye umwanya wo kugira ngo bamwe be kugera iriya hakurya”
Tugarutse ku byavuzwe na Depite Kaboneka, waracyuriwe ngo wagiye mu Rwanda ntuwagira icyo uba n’ibindi n’ibindi bigamije kugutesha agaciro imbere y’abari muri iriya nama. Ese wagira icyo ubivugaho?
Urumva nabivugaho iki rwose, uretse ko ibi byerekana imyifatire y’abayobozi bo muri FPR yuzuyemo ubwishongozi (arrogance; insolence méprisable ) n’agasuzuguro kenshi nkuko byagaragaye mu bisubizo bye, kuri njye iriya ntabwo ari imyifatire y’umunyapolitique
Uretse ibibazo wabajije ku giti cyawe hari abandi bagize icyo bavuga baba barabazaga cyangwa baratangaga ibitekerezo. Muri rusange wabivugaho iki?
Hari uwitwa Habimana Bonaventure wabajije ikibazo aho kugirango asubizwe bazanamo amateka ya mukuru we Joseph Nzirorera, urumva aho baganishaga kuri bo icyaha ni icy’inkomoko ndetse ibi byagaragaye aho umusore witwa Norman niba ntibeshye aho yavugaga ko we adashobora gusaba imbazi z’icyo atakoze kabishywe niyo yaba ari se wagikoze yanabitsimbarayeho cyane ariko Dr Habyarimana akomeza kumwumvisha ko agomba kuzisaba ndetse yongeraho ko imyumvire ye iterwa n’abo uyu musore agendana nabo nkaho abazi.
Mu gusoza, wavuga iki nk’umwanzuro kuri iriya nama ya Ndi umunyarwanda yabereye i Bruxelles no kuri gahunda ya Ndi umunyarwanda ubwayo?
Muri make iyi gahunda yatangiye kera kuva FPR Inkotanyi yigarurira u Rwanda binyuze kandi bigatangirira muri Gacaca, bikomereza muri komisiyo y’ubumwe n’ubwiyinge ubu agashya ni ndi umunyarwanda, mbere se twari iki. Ibi byose ni bimwe nk’ibikoresho ubutegetsi bwo mu Rwanda bukoresha ngo buhahamure by’umwihariko abahutu, bajye bahorana ipfunwe n’ikimwaro batageraho batekereza no ku burenganzira bwabo nk’abenegihugu. Ngo ndi umunyarwanda ryigeze gukoreshwa kandi muri 1958 igihe cy’umwami Rudahigwa mu gihe abarwanashyaka b’abahutu nka Gitera n’abandi bari batangiye gusaba ko nabo bashyirwa mubutegetsi. Bwari uburyo bwo kubakumira ukoresheje iyi mvugo ya ndi umunyarwanda kuko ubutegetsi aribo bari babufite kandi ari abanyarwanda, urumva rero ko ntacyo waza uvuga rero. Iyi gahunda rero ntakindi igamije kuri njye uretse kuyobya uburariri, ngo FPR Inkotanyi ikomeze itegeke ndetse hatazagira unarota no kwivumbagatanya kuko psychologiquement binyuze muri gahunda zinyuranye abahutu bahahamutse bagashegeshwa. Aha nakwibutsa ko kandi FPR Inkotanyi n’ubwo yihaye kuvugira abatutsi atari ko bose bayibonamo kuko hakiri impunzi zo muri 1959 zikiri za Uganda n’ahandi ndetse abatutsi bo mu Rwanda bo bakaba barabaye ibitambo by’abari bafite inyota y’ubutegetsi. Kuri FPR amoko ntacyo ababwiye ahubwo ni uburyo bwo kwigerera ku butegetsi uyakoresha uko ushaka bitewe n’inyungu z’igihe uba urimo.
Marc Matabaro
The Rwandan
